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Scarlet_MeisterFGC commented at 2019-02-17 05:09:56 » #2337472
It's MrWizards values not the FGCs
4 Points
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It's MrWizards values not the FGCs
4 Points
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LivingCorpse commented at 2019-02-17 06:30:35 » #2337481
Hey now, sex appeal has always been a part of fighting game genera.
20 Points
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Hey now, sex appeal has always been a part of fighting game genera.
20 Points
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LivingCorpse commented at 2019-02-17 07:05:23 » #2337485
Not true, the problem was they pushed it too far in advertising the game so people think that's all it has. It's no Rumble Roses.
23 Points
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Not true, the problem was they pushed it too far in advertising the game so people think that's all it has. It's no Rumble Roses.
23 Points
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Anonymous commented at 2019-02-17 13:50:20 » #2337569
As long as a game has ANY sex appeal, there will be those who assume that's all it is. Happened to DOA, happened to Dragon's Crown, happened to Mass Effect in a hilariously infamous televised interview, etc.
Not to say that no games have EVER tried to coast on sex appeal alone, mind you, bu that's why you actually pay attention rather than generalize and dismiss.
19 Points
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As long as a game has ANY sex appeal, there will be those who assume that's all it is. Happened to DOA, happened to Dragon's Crown, happened to Mass Effect in a hilariously infamous televised interview, etc.
Not to say that no games have EVER tried to coast on sex appeal alone, mind you, bu that's why you actually pay attention rather than generalize and dismiss.
19 Points
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Anonymous commented at 2019-03-04 09:08:26 » #2344476
I mean, if you develop a whole engine exclusively for bouncing titties it's hard to say that sex appeal isn't your main focus. DOA never had the best designs, characters, mechanics or story, so I really doubt it would have gotten this hard if it wasn't for the fanservice. It's no surprise than their beach spin-off is even more popular than the original series.
And there's nothing wrong with that tho, I'm just saying that we need to recognize things for what they truly are.
9 Points
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I mean, if you develop a whole engine exclusively for bouncing titties it's hard to say that sex appeal isn't your main focus. DOA never had the best designs, characters, mechanics or story, so I really doubt it would have gotten this hard if it wasn't for the fanservice. It's no surprise than their beach spin-off is even more popular than the original series.
And there's nothing wrong with that tho, I'm just saying that we need to recognize things for what they truly are.
9 Points
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gulabjamuns commented at 2022-11-29 05:09:23 » #2766931
I'll give a perspective from someone who likes DOA for the fanservice and much more than just that.
First of all, they didn't make a whole "engine" for the jiggle physics. Anyone who suggests that took up the bulk of the game development time has to be either joking or being a troll. Until DOA5 they didn't even come up with a term for it, and even then it's not like it's actually an "engine", in gaming terms. And now, other 3D FGs have followed DOA by adding jiggle too (and in other things too, like Tekken's Bob). Other than that, DOA has been around the same as other popular FGs when it comes to that stuff, like KoF (had bouncing boobs before DOA, and thick asses that jiggle in thongs too) and Soulcalibur (Taki's friggen nipples!?). Is it really fair for DOA to pay a price for doing the same thing as the competition, but (mostly) better? (not easy to top Taki's nipples, gotta say, but DOA2U came close)
With that out of the way, the basic gameplay has always been as solid as any other 3D fighting game. If you really know anything about 3D fighting games, you'd realize that DOA is basically the excellent Virtua Fighter 2 fighting engine, but with the "triangle system" added (holds beat strikes, strikes beat throws, throws beat holds). Holding, or countering, is one of the first things people notice about DOA's gameplay but depending on your history with FGs and how open minded you are (I'll get more into that later), you'll either love or hate the concept. The next most important thing is the stages. VF3 introduced the concept of stange design that actually matters, and DOA2 and Tekken 4 followed their granddaddy as usual, but VF and Tekken fans weren't happy with that. DOA2, however, did the best with the concept, and it became one of the best things about the series.
Basically, DOA is at its core a more flashy, more graphically beautiful, and sexier version of the legendary Virtua Fighter, that's easier to learn and more accessible to newcomers. That's what DOA can be at its best.
DOA1 actually reviewed really well in its day, despite the giggles about the jiggles. The reason why it's called Dead or Alive was because Tecmo bet the farm on it, and it paid off. The game was enough of a hit. DOA2 reviewed and sold even better, and is still considered the best by many fans. DOA4 was the first time any complaints came up, and it was mostly from competitive fans, but most of them were really happy with DOA5 (DOA5LR), until DOA6 became another low point.
If there's any reason why DOA gets a bad rep, it's because of some of DOA's marketing (and DOAX's existence), ok sure, but also because of Tekken and fanboyism. Tekken established itself as a popular 2D FG first, and you could argue Virtua Fighter deserved that level of fame way more, looking purely at gameplay. But here's where Tekken got lucky - it was a Sony-exclusive series. It made its mark on the most popular gaming platform, so it had an advantage. Meanwhile, VF, DOA, and even Namco's other FG, Soulcalibur, were all associated more with Sega consoles, like Saturn and DC, which were great consoles which that got killed by a combination of Sega's incompetence and Sony's marketing.
DOA1 came out on Saturn first and PS1 after, DOA2 came out on DC first and PS2 after. DOA3 and DOA4 were Xbox-exclusive. On top of that, Itagaki and Harada had a friendly public rivalry that fanboys took too seriously, and Tekken with its larger fanbase crapped all over Xbox's DOA every chance they got, using DOA's fantastic sexuality against it (c'mon, Tekken fans had to be jealous every time Anna shook those rock-hard melons). Also, Tekken players were so used to their juggle-combo focused gameplay that if/when they tried DOA, the concept of holding/countering usually turned them off.
Thankfully, eventually Tekken finally went multiplatform with T6, but DOA didn't again until DOA5. All that said, I like Tekken. I liked Tekken before DOA, even, because I never owned a Saturn, DC, or Xbox until 2010, unfortunately. Tekken had the advantage of being associated with Sony, but there was competition on just the PS as well, as we don't see any Battle Arena Toshinden or Bloody Roar these days, do we? Sadly. Maybe of DOA had tried to compete with Tekken directly on the same platform, rather than beat it, it would have gone the way of those other 3D FGs, just because Tekken got to the scene before it. Building a fanbase on Xbox probably actually helped it survive, especially being a launch title and being optimized for the strongest home console of the time (DOA3, DOA2U, and DOA4 still look amazing by today's standards).
Yeah, this is a strange place to put an "essay" defending DOA against unfairly being judged as nothing but fanservice, but I think strange is always a good thing! Also, I didn't plan to say this much, but I did, and I'm not gonna let it go to waste because anon will make fun of me.
And Mr. Wizard can go to hell with his "core values", DOA's are obviously way better. But I guess jail is an even better place for him to go, since it's actually real. So ironic. I'll take watching a sexually suggestive fantasy-wrestling grapple over the shit he did any day.
keystrokeskeystrokeskeystrokes
6 Points
Flag
I'll give a perspective from someone who likes DOA for the fanservice and much more than just that.
First of all, they didn't make a whole "engine" for the jiggle physics. Anyone who suggests that took up the bulk of the game development time has to be either joking or being a troll. Until DOA5 they didn't even come up with a term for it, and even then it's not like it's actually an "engine", in gaming terms. And now, other 3D FGs have followed DOA by adding jiggle too (and in other things too, like Tekken's Bob). Other than that, DOA has been around the same as other popular FGs when it comes to that stuff, like KoF (had bouncing boobs before DOA, and thick asses that jiggle in thongs too) and Soulcalibur (Taki's friggen nipples!?). Is it really fair for DOA to pay a price for doing the same thing as the competition, but (mostly) better? (not easy to top Taki's nipples, gotta say, but DOA2U came close)
With that out of the way, the basic gameplay has always been as solid as any other 3D fighting game. If you really know anything about 3D fighting games, you'd realize that DOA is basically the excellent Virtua Fighter 2 fighting engine, but with the "triangle system" added (holds beat strikes, strikes beat throws, throws beat holds). Holding, or countering, is one of the first things people notice about DOA's gameplay but depending on your history with FGs and how open minded you are (I'll get more into that later), you'll either love or hate the concept. The next most important thing is the stages. VF3 introduced the concept of stange design that actually matters, and DOA2 and Tekken 4 followed their granddaddy as usual, but VF and Tekken fans weren't happy with that. DOA2, however, did the best with the concept, and it became one of the best things about the series.
Basically, DOA is at its core a more flashy, more graphically beautiful, and sexier version of the legendary Virtua Fighter, that's easier to learn and more accessible to newcomers. That's what DOA can be at its best.
DOA1 actually reviewed really well in its day, despite the giggles about the jiggles. The reason why it's called Dead or Alive was because Tecmo bet the farm on it, and it paid off. The game was enough of a hit. DOA2 reviewed and sold even better, and is still considered the best by many fans. DOA4 was the first time any complaints came up, and it was mostly from competitive fans, but most of them were really happy with DOA5 (DOA5LR), until DOA6 became another low point.
If there's any reason why DOA gets a bad rep, it's because of some of DOA's marketing (and DOAX's existence), ok sure, but also because of Tekken and fanboyism. Tekken established itself as a popular 2D FG first, and you could argue Virtua Fighter deserved that level of fame way more, looking purely at gameplay. But here's where Tekken got lucky - it was a Sony-exclusive series. It made its mark on the most popular gaming platform, so it had an advantage. Meanwhile, VF, DOA, and even Namco's other FG, Soulcalibur, were all associated more with Sega consoles, like Saturn and DC, which were great consoles which that got killed by a combination of Sega's incompetence and Sony's marketing.
DOA1 came out on Saturn first and PS1 after, DOA2 came out on DC first and PS2 after. DOA3 and DOA4 were Xbox-exclusive. On top of that, Itagaki and Harada had a friendly public rivalry that fanboys took too seriously, and Tekken with its larger fanbase crapped all over Xbox's DOA every chance they got, using DOA's fantastic sexuality against it (c'mon, Tekken fans had to be jealous every time Anna shook those rock-hard melons). Also, Tekken players were so used to their juggle-combo focused gameplay that if/when they tried DOA, the concept of holding/countering usually turned them off.
Thankfully, eventually Tekken finally went multiplatform with T6, but DOA didn't again until DOA5. All that said, I like Tekken. I liked Tekken before DOA, even, because I never owned a Saturn, DC, or Xbox until 2010, unfortunately. Tekken had the advantage of being associated with Sony, but there was competition on just the PS as well, as we don't see any Battle Arena Toshinden or Bloody Roar these days, do we? Sadly. Maybe of DOA had tried to compete with Tekken directly on the same platform, rather than beat it, it would have gone the way of those other 3D FGs, just because Tekken got to the scene before it. Building a fanbase on Xbox probably actually helped it survive, especially being a launch title and being optimized for the strongest home console of the time (DOA3, DOA2U, and DOA4 still look amazing by today's standards).
Yeah, this is a strange place to put an "essay" defending DOA against unfairly being judged as nothing but fanservice, but I think strange is always a good thing! Also, I didn't plan to say this much, but I did, and I'm not gonna let it go to waste because anon will make fun of me.
And Mr. Wizard can go to hell with his "core values", DOA's are obviously way better. But I guess jail is an even better place for him to go, since it's actually real. So ironic. I'll take watching a sexually suggestive fantasy-wrestling grapple over the shit he did any day.
keystrokeskeystrokeskeystrokes
6 Points
Flag
1