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Anonymous commented at 2015-03-09 02:53:54 » #1701660
Compared to Stan's other works it is. The proportions are OK but the coloring looks like it's unfinished with rough brush strokes and the way it unevenly fades to nothing in places.
True, but an artist's skill can be measure through the quality of their artwork and it's the skilled ones that pass the quality requirements.
Wouldn't a deleted image be unsearchable?
Then why not just have a rule that stops poorly-made self-uploads instead of a non-japanese rule that says "We don't allow it unless we allow it"? It's certainly hasn't stopped pictures that have nothing to do with Japan from showing up anyway (post #2575638) which are allowed just because they're drawn good.
If more users was your aim, you wouldn't have a rule designed to block out content many people would be interested in, especially since there are no booru sites for safe western content. The presence of that rule lowers the potential for users to be interested in this site.
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I'm really not sure I'd call that lower quality. That image is actually drawn quite well. Either way, it's still very much better than WitchKing00's artwork.
Compared to Stan's other works it is. The proportions are OK but the coloring looks like it's unfinished with rough brush strokes and the way it unevenly fades to nothing in places.
On the other hand, image deletion isn't based on the skill of the artist, but rather the quality of the image its self. A 5 star chef could burn a loaf of bread into charcoal, and it wouldn't be any better just because it was a 5 star chef that burned it instead of an amateur. Also keep in mind that art style matters as well. As I stated before, art with noticeable western influence will generally be passed over for an exception regardless of quality.
True, but an artist's skill can be measure through the quality of their artwork and it's the skilled ones that pass the quality requirements.
If images of equal quality to the Stanley Lau artwork you've been linking to has been deleted, that's certainly a problem. Appeal them on the forums and I'm sure that they'll be restored.
Wouldn't a deleted image be unsearchable?
False. The rule is actually quite important. It does a very good job of discouraging a very large volume of very poor self-uploads that often have absolutely nothing to do with Japan that we would be getting otherwise (and that we did get before the original rule was put in place).
Then why not just have a rule that stops poorly-made self-uploads instead of a non-japanese rule that says "We don't allow it unless we allow it"? It's certainly hasn't stopped pictures that have nothing to do with Japan from showing up anyway (post #2575638) which are allowed just because they're drawn good.
That's kinda the point. Either we allow more high-quality artwork, or we don't allow more high-quality artwork. Which option do you think brings more users to the site? Which option do you think pleases the larger number of users? We aren't here to please artists, we're here to provide high-quality content to our users. Certain artists will be preferred if their art style and quality is higher. That sounds pretty reasonable to me.
If more users was your aim, you wouldn't have a rule designed to block out content many people would be interested in, especially since there are no booru sites for safe western content. The presence of that rule lowers the potential for users to be interested in this site.
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Jerl commented at 2015-03-09 09:50:40 » #1701806
You don't seem to get how bad of a judge people are of the quality of their own work. If you give them an inch, they will take a mile, and Complain loud and in annoying ways when their artwork is deleted "because it isn't poor, you're just being mean". As I said, this is something that we actually had to deal with in the past.
Of course we aren't trying to appeal to every possible user. That would be pointless, and would actually work out badly for the site. We've actually tried running a booru like that; look into xbooru. The community is shit, the users tend to tag quite poorly, and it actually results in fewer visitors to the site. However, if we can get more of the ones who will enjoy Gelbooru for its actual purpose of high-quality Japan-related artwork, we will allow some additional very high-quality images that don't quite fit within that description.
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Then why not just have a rule that stops poorly-made self-uploads instead of a non-japanese rule that says "We don't allow it unless we allow it"?
You don't seem to get how bad of a judge people are of the quality of their own work. If you give them an inch, they will take a mile, and Complain loud and in annoying ways when their artwork is deleted "because it isn't poor, you're just being mean". As I said, this is something that we actually had to deal with in the past.
If more users was your aim, you wouldn't have a rule designed to block out content many people would be interested in, especially since there are no booru sites for safe western content. The presence of that rule lowers the potential for users to be interested in this site.
Of course we aren't trying to appeal to every possible user. That would be pointless, and would actually work out badly for the site. We've actually tried running a booru like that; look into xbooru. The community is shit, the users tend to tag quite poorly, and it actually results in fewer visitors to the site. However, if we can get more of the ones who will enjoy Gelbooru for its actual purpose of high-quality Japan-related artwork, we will allow some additional very high-quality images that don't quite fit within that description.
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Anonymous commented at 2015-03-09 11:14:25 » #1701832
I'm well aware that artists are biased towards their own work and claim that anything they make is good even when it isn't. Any website that sets standards for their content runs into this issue. I'm just saying that having a rule that specifically states "No self-uploads" would be a more appropriate rule to stop self-uploads than a "non-japanese" rule with an exception that allows some non-japanese content to get through regardless.
Which means you're trying to have it both ways, making this out to be a japanese-only site to attract anime fans to the site while having non-japanese content that exists for no other reason than "we think it's good" to attract cartoon fans who will likely leave when they can't find as much of that content as they wanted. Danbooru focuses on it's content of choice more than you do (anime in their case) yet seem to have a larger and more active community. Perhaps focusing on your content of choice will work out for the better.
Xbooru became the mess it is today from having no apparent goal and a community that's doing nothing to fix it. They are more a dumping ground for whatever now and outclassed by all of its competitors.
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You don't seem to get how bad of a judge people are of the quality of their own work. If you give them an inch, they will take a mile, and Complain loud and in annoying ways when their artwork is deleted "because it isn't poor, you're just being mean". As I said, this is something that we actually had to deal with in the past.
I'm well aware that artists are biased towards their own work and claim that anything they make is good even when it isn't. Any website that sets standards for their content runs into this issue. I'm just saying that having a rule that specifically states "No self-uploads" would be a more appropriate rule to stop self-uploads than a "non-japanese" rule with an exception that allows some non-japanese content to get through regardless.
Of course we aren't trying to appeal to every possible user. That would be pointless, and would actually work out badly for the site. We've actually tried running a booru like that; look into xbooru. The community is shit, the users tend to tag quite poorly, and it actually results in fewer visitors to the site. However, if we can get more of the ones who will enjoy Gelbooru for its actual purpose of high-quality Japan-related artwork, we will allow some additional very high-quality images that don't quite fit within that description.
Which means you're trying to have it both ways, making this out to be a japanese-only site to attract anime fans to the site while having non-japanese content that exists for no other reason than "we think it's good" to attract cartoon fans who will likely leave when they can't find as much of that content as they wanted. Danbooru focuses on it's content of choice more than you do (anime in their case) yet seem to have a larger and more active community. Perhaps focusing on your content of choice will work out for the better.
Xbooru became the mess it is today from having no apparent goal and a community that's doing nothing to fix it. They are more a dumping ground for whatever now and outclassed by all of its competitors.
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Jerl commented at 2015-03-09 23:11:56 » #1702110
We did functionally operate on a "no self-uploads" rule for quite some time. That ended up turning out problematic when some good artists started self-posting completely on-topic works. There's no way to get around that without putting another exception system in place, and the way the rule is now also discourages other lower-quality off-topic images from being uploaded as well.
As it stands, almost no images are granted an exception if they aren't on-topic. For every image like the ones you cited which have received an exception despite being off-topic, there are dozens which don't.
From what I can tell, only an extremely small minority of anime fans are put off by our allowing of this content, likely because of how rare it is. On the other hand, remember that being an anime fan and being a cartoon fan is not an exclusive choice, and there is a very significant portion of users who enjoy both. This policy allows us to appeal to the users who enjoy both types of content even more than if we very strictly only allowed artwork by Japanese artists.
But there's another important distinction to make. A lot of the artwork that we give exceptions to despite being off-topic are based on games. There's a huge overlap between people who enjoy anime and people who enjoy games, and this is reflected in how likely we are to approve a given image when compared to how likely we are to approve an image based on a cartoon.
Basically, the false assumption that you're falling into is that there is a "both ways". There really isn't. It isn't a binary decision. We aren't trying to appeal to new users who only want cartoon or game material, we're trying to appeal to our existing users who want cartoon and game material in addition to the anime material that they're already here for. If we get a few ad impressions for the few users who come by only looking for cartoon material before they leave, that's fine too.
I'll also point that how active a community is doesn't necessarily directly correlate to how many actual users there are, and in turn how many ad impressions we receive.
Your point about Xbooru was exactly my own point as to why dropping the artist rule is a bad idea, and why it isn't going to happen.
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We did functionally operate on a "no self-uploads" rule for quite some time. That ended up turning out problematic when some good artists started self-posting completely on-topic works. There's no way to get around that without putting another exception system in place, and the way the rule is now also discourages other lower-quality off-topic images from being uploaded as well.
As it stands, almost no images are granted an exception if they aren't on-topic. For every image like the ones you cited which have received an exception despite being off-topic, there are dozens which don't.
From what I can tell, only an extremely small minority of anime fans are put off by our allowing of this content, likely because of how rare it is. On the other hand, remember that being an anime fan and being a cartoon fan is not an exclusive choice, and there is a very significant portion of users who enjoy both. This policy allows us to appeal to the users who enjoy both types of content even more than if we very strictly only allowed artwork by Japanese artists.
But there's another important distinction to make. A lot of the artwork that we give exceptions to despite being off-topic are based on games. There's a huge overlap between people who enjoy anime and people who enjoy games, and this is reflected in how likely we are to approve a given image when compared to how likely we are to approve an image based on a cartoon.
Basically, the false assumption that you're falling into is that there is a "both ways". There really isn't. It isn't a binary decision. We aren't trying to appeal to new users who only want cartoon or game material, we're trying to appeal to our existing users who want cartoon and game material in addition to the anime material that they're already here for. If we get a few ad impressions for the few users who come by only looking for cartoon material before they leave, that's fine too.
I'll also point that how active a community is doesn't necessarily directly correlate to how many actual users there are, and in turn how many ad impressions we receive.
Your point about Xbooru was exactly my own point as to why dropping the artist rule is a bad idea, and why it isn't going to happen.
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